Thursday, April 24, 2008

Thanks for the comments on the Ayers/Obama stuff. I guess I want to clarify a couple of my points.

-- Senator Obama's has a Bill Ayers problem and I think it will end up being a much bigger problem then Rev. Wright.

After reading some well reasoned arguments I have personally concluded: it is a problem. You may argue it isn't going to be fair, you may argue it isn't going to be correct. All that said it is going to be a problem for him.

A problem that will be tied into nice 60 second TV commercials that are going to hurt him with Blue-Collar men and women which if you believe the exit polls the group needs to make progress with.

Is it a problem for me, well yeah it is. Then again I am Republican and I was a McCain supporter even during the primary so Sen. Obama wasn't going to get my vote anyway. Is it a show-stopper issue for me? No it isn't.

Ayers was a founder for a group who thought it was ok to kill guys like my Dad, my Uncle and my cousin on American soil because they were in the armed forces and he seems unapologetic for that. In my heart of heart I think people who do that and actually conspire to do those things and/or do them should spend the rest of their lives in jail, we owe that to our folks in the armed forces then and now. They should not be professors on the state dime, they shouldn't get pardons from a president after they are caught with explosives.

If you are running for office you should have more sense than have them host a fundraiser for you. I suspect a large percentage of these folks who are defending Obama now would take a different tact if it was a Republican who had a fundraiser hosted years ago by someone who led a group that planned and acted on plans to blow up anti-war protesters, regardless of what they have done since.

You might be a bigger person than me and can look past that. Good for you.

As for the question
-- Is there no "redemption" through good works possible in Christian America?

In order for there to be redemption the needs to be repentance; sorry I haven't seen that from the man.

As for
-- Rising above it.

This is politics and it isn't going to happen. I know some people think that if Obama is the nominee it's going to be all puppy dogs and butterfly kisses from the Democrats. I am not holding my breath. It's going to get ugly all around, I don't expect that is going to do nothing but positive message ads about Obama.



So-Called Austin Mayor said...


Sen. Obama has a "relationship" with Ayers -- he hosted a fundraiser years ago -- in the same way that this document written by Sen. McCain -- "I am a black criminal and I have performed the deeds of an air pirate. I almost died and the Vietnamese people saved my life, thanks to the doctors." -- is a "confession."

In other words, he doesn't and it isn't.

so-called "Austin Mayor"

So-Called Austin Mayor said...


And if, as you wisely predict, the race gets ugly and personal in the fall, I have supreme confidence that Sen. Obama will comport himself with the calm dignity with which we are all familiar.

I am also confident that Sen. McCain will respond with a series of the temper tantrums with which his Senate colleagues are familiar, and with which voters are becoming increasingly familiar.

so-called "Austin Mayor"

OneMan said...

If you voluntarily go to someone's home so they can help you raise money that implies some sort of relationship especially if you are also on the board of a civic organization with them.

SCAM, you may argue that isn't the definition of a relationship but I think it is. Do I have some sort of bias on this, perhaps but I would say if I do it is because Ayers is involved, not Senator Obama.

Sometimes be it if he was at a fundraiser with Tony Rezko or other stuff instead of just being blunt and honest he tries to be nuanced a little too much sometimes. It's not a problem unique to Sen. Obama.

OneMan said...


Perhaps America wants a president who gets a little pissed off at stuff.

We will see what the voters want when all is said and done.

So-Called Austin Mayor said...


1. We've had eight years of Republicans who "get pissed off at stuff".

But getting pissed off at Iraq when bin Laden is on the loose on the Afghanistan/Pakistan border is not particularly helpful.

I think that units of piss may be over-valued as a leadership metric.

2. So do you agree that Sen. McCain has a relationship with the anti-Catholic, anti-Semitic pastor John Hagee, who's presidential endorsement McCain actively sought and with whom McCain appeared on stage?

And if they do have a "relationship", shouldn't McCain clarify whether or not he believes that the United States was just visited by the Anti-Christ?

3. I despise Bill Ayers and have for years. [In fact, I just backspaced over a long screed about Mr. Ayers and my thoughts on what I think he "deserves" because it was intemperate, hateful and ultimately not beneficial for my mental health... Long story short: My contempt for him takes a back seat to no one.]

But unless you think Obama is the Messiah is much more than a goofy metaphor, hanging Barack Obama for Bill Ayers sins is both unjust and intellectually dishonest.

so-called "Austin Mayor"

OneMan said...

1: I would argue that McCain pissed is a different beast than Bush pissed.

2: That is dumb and I don't agree with it but it isn't Ayers like. I don't have a better defense than that.

3: In terms of backing off of an Ayers screed I am right there with you.

As for intellectually honest, you may have a point but this is politics and the intellectually honest isn't usually part of the picture.

As Peggy Noonan pointed out
--He has been tagged as a snooty lefty, as the glamorous, ambivalent candidate from Men's Vogue--

As this stuff puts him in the snooty lefty corner, the last place you want to be if you are him for the general.

Rob_N said...

FWIW One (and S-CAM) I think you're missing my point about "rising above".

When I made the comment that you either want to rise above it or you don't, it was in reference to particular comments you had made One.

But the larger picture here is the very premise of Obama's campaign. Either America herself wants to rise above the bs or it doesn't.

If voters are willing to be swept up by swiftboat ads rehashing despicable acts and denigrating declarations -- whether from 40 years ago (Ayers) or 40 hours ago (Hagee, with his comments just before McCain visited the Crescent City that New Orleans deserved to drown) -- or they won't be so willing this time around.

That is the meta-argument Obama is making. If we as a people are tired of this acrimony, much of it stemming from the clashes over the Vietnam War, then Obama presents himself as a choice to end the circlejerking and get down to business.

McCain, so far, has tried having it both ways saying out of one side of his mouth that he wants to run an issues-based campaign and then quipping about not going to Hagee's church "for 20 years".